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	<title>Comments on: Miss Manners Misses the Point</title>
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		<title>By: quixtarisacult</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>quixtarisacult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Pete...

I will try to keep this general out of respect for Amy&#039;s desire to keep comments on topic and on Direct Selling.  (By the way that is almost 50 years, not 60.) I will stand by my assertion that if only retail sales to non distributors represents less than 5% of total sales, and if distributors did not buy the remaining 95% of the products, I couldn&#039;t see that company remaining viable from a business standpoint.  Therefore, recruitment serves the purpose of bringing more consumer minded distributors on board.  Since they purchase over 95% of the total company sales, aren&#039;t they the company&#039;s real customer?  Isn&#039;t recruitment then a really good sales job since the product that the new distributor buys are never retailed but self consumed or stacked in a cupboard somewhere (possibly minus the 5% that actually gets retailed somewhere somehow to someone)?     

Enthusiasm is a hallmark of direct selling business; I couldn&#039;t see it operating successfully without it. People who believe in the opportunity obviously don&#039;t mind buying the products.  They believe in the &quot;plan&quot;. Direct selling many times &quot;sells&quot; more than just the products.  Distributors are &quot;sold&quot; on the dream of future success, whether this is a big dream or a more modest one. For the 2 to 5 year plan to have even the remotest chance of working, the enthusiastic recruit must go on an incredible recruitment drive which probably leaves little time to sell anything to anyone beside a prospect.     

Pete, I respect your enthusiasm for what ever your company is. The way certain direct selling companies operate, recruitment is selling.  I guess if one is able to recruit enough, one might view themselves as being successful at selling.  Basically isn&#039;t that what your training teaches (with an encouragement to sell some product to satisfy the company retail selling rule)?

From the standpoint of operating a business, direct selling distributors many times do not think or operate like a more normal business would.  A normal business would not consume nearly all of  its own inventory.  Of course a normal business doesn&#039;t operate within a structure that is difficult to describe without mentioning the tomb of a pharaoh.

Pete, you believe I have a negative bias.  I at least attempt to clearly say why I believe the way I do.  My thinking isn&#039;t set in stone.  Life is a learning experience.  I&#039;ve changed my mind about things before.  Direct Selling or MLM or what ever you want to call it is an industry, one that comes with baggage. You can be positive and paint a rosy picture, but that doesn&#039;t make the dark underbelly disappear from my view.  You can put a clothes pin on your nose and avoid the negative smell, but I don&#039;t have to.  I believe an open discussion pro and con is appropriate.  If a person knows all things going in and is &quot;okay&quot; with it, then I am okay with it. If someone wants to put lipstick on a pig and marry it off to someone else, well what can I say? Have a great life together! Of course I have to wonder how one will feel when the lipstick rubs off?  I would have to ask Miss Manners how to handle a situation like that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete&#8230;</p>
<p>I will try to keep this general out of respect for Amy&#8217;s desire to keep comments on topic and on Direct Selling.  (By the way that is almost 50 years, not 60.) I will stand by my assertion that if only retail sales to non distributors represents less than 5% of total sales, and if distributors did not buy the remaining 95% of the products, I couldn&#8217;t see that company remaining viable from a business standpoint.  Therefore, recruitment serves the purpose of bringing more consumer minded distributors on board.  Since they purchase over 95% of the total company sales, aren&#8217;t they the company&#8217;s real customer?  Isn&#8217;t recruitment then a really good sales job since the product that the new distributor buys are never retailed but self consumed or stacked in a cupboard somewhere (possibly minus the 5% that actually gets retailed somewhere somehow to someone)?     </p>
<p>Enthusiasm is a hallmark of direct selling business; I couldn&#8217;t see it operating successfully without it. People who believe in the opportunity obviously don&#8217;t mind buying the products.  They believe in the &#8220;plan&#8221;. Direct selling many times &#8220;sells&#8221; more than just the products.  Distributors are &#8220;sold&#8221; on the dream of future success, whether this is a big dream or a more modest one. For the 2 to 5 year plan to have even the remotest chance of working, the enthusiastic recruit must go on an incredible recruitment drive which probably leaves little time to sell anything to anyone beside a prospect.     </p>
<p>Pete, I respect your enthusiasm for what ever your company is. The way certain direct selling companies operate, recruitment is selling.  I guess if one is able to recruit enough, one might view themselves as being successful at selling.  Basically isn&#8217;t that what your training teaches (with an encouragement to sell some product to satisfy the company retail selling rule)?</p>
<p>From the standpoint of operating a business, direct selling distributors many times do not think or operate like a more normal business would.  A normal business would not consume nearly all of  its own inventory.  Of course a normal business doesn&#8217;t operate within a structure that is difficult to describe without mentioning the tomb of a pharaoh.</p>
<p>Pete, you believe I have a negative bias.  I at least attempt to clearly say why I believe the way I do.  My thinking isn&#8217;t set in stone.  Life is a learning experience.  I&#8217;ve changed my mind about things before.  Direct Selling or MLM or what ever you want to call it is an industry, one that comes with baggage. You can be positive and paint a rosy picture, but that doesn&#8217;t make the dark underbelly disappear from my view.  You can put a clothes pin on your nose and avoid the negative smell, but I don&#8217;t have to.  I believe an open discussion pro and con is appropriate.  If a person knows all things going in and is &#8220;okay&#8221; with it, then I am okay with it. If someone wants to put lipstick on a pig and marry it off to someone else, well what can I say? Have a great life together! Of course I have to wonder how one will feel when the lipstick rubs off?  I would have to ask Miss Manners how to handle a situation like that?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Although quixtarsacult sites a specific company (albeit with an obvious negative bias), Amway/Quixtar&#039;s history relates in general to MLM; so it is fair to use them as an example.  That being said, the entire industry owes a lot to this company; and their 60-year record validates that this method of marketing does work.  Have improvements been made in those 60 years?...definitely.  Can more be made?...of course, and they have been.  I do think that quixtarisacult makes some erroneous observations:  one being regarding the &quot;cult&quot; nature of Quixtar/Amway.  People who are improving their lives, both financially and developmentally, are certainly bound to exude enthusiasm:  sure beats the constant whining and complaining of those who choose not to improve themselves!  In addition, the idea that A/Q would collapse if left solely to retail sales is a &quot;straw man&quot;:  they have and incredible track record for 60 years, based on a combination of recruiting, personal use and retail. I have to go back to my original statement that lack of success in this industry, can almost always be traced back to poor coaching, either because that was all that was offered (and the distributor did not seek out the upline coaching available), or because the person themselves were not coachable. This all assumes, of course, that you have chosen a good, sustainable company.  Sorry for continuing on the A/Q discussion; but you have to admit that they are the &quot;granddaddy&quot;; and, therefore, lend to a general discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although quixtarsacult sites a specific company (albeit with an obvious negative bias), Amway/Quixtar&#8217;s history relates in general to MLM; so it is fair to use them as an example.  That being said, the entire industry owes a lot to this company; and their 60-year record validates that this method of marketing does work.  Have improvements been made in those 60 years?&#8230;definitely.  Can more be made?&#8230;of course, and they have been.  I do think that quixtarisacult makes some erroneous observations:  one being regarding the &#8220;cult&#8221; nature of Quixtar/Amway.  People who are improving their lives, both financially and developmentally, are certainly bound to exude enthusiasm:  sure beats the constant whining and complaining of those who choose not to improve themselves!  In addition, the idea that A/Q would collapse if left solely to retail sales is a &#8220;straw man&#8221;:  they have and incredible track record for 60 years, based on a combination of recruiting, personal use and retail. I have to go back to my original statement that lack of success in this industry, can almost always be traced back to poor coaching, either because that was all that was offered (and the distributor did not seek out the upline coaching available), or because the person themselves were not coachable. This all assumes, of course, that you have chosen a good, sustainable company.  Sorry for continuing on the A/Q discussion; but you have to admit that they are the &#8220;granddaddy&#8221;; and, therefore, lend to a general discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: quixtarisacult</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>quixtarisacult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 02:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Amy...

Your point is well taken. What I said could be applied to any number of other companies, so maybe it was unfair to single out the one.  

What direct selling companies like to promote about themselves and what the distributors promote about them many times are two different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy&#8230;</p>
<p>Your point is well taken. What I said could be applied to any number of other companies, so maybe it was unfair to single out the one.  </p>
<p>What direct selling companies like to promote about themselves and what the distributors promote about them many times are two different things.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Q - 
You bring up some interesting points, but let&#039;s remember that this site isn&#039;t meant to debate the policies of individual companies. I posted your comment based on the thoughts in your first three paragraphs. Although I was tempted to delete your last two paragraphs before posting, I don&#039;t want to set that type of precedent. Instead thought I&#039;d use this as an opportunity to remind everyone that we&#039;re here to talk about direct selling generally so we can raise awareness and understanding of principles that relate to a broad range of companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q -<br />
You bring up some interesting points, but let&#8217;s remember that this site isn&#8217;t meant to debate the policies of individual companies. I posted your comment based on the thoughts in your first three paragraphs. Although I was tempted to delete your last two paragraphs before posting, I don&#8217;t want to set that type of precedent. Instead thought I&#8217;d use this as an opportunity to remind everyone that we&#8217;re here to talk about direct selling generally so we can raise awareness and understanding of principles that relate to a broad range of companies.</p>
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		<title>By: quixtarisacult</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>quixtarisacult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Pete...

Proper education and coaching are one thing; what is actually taught and encouraged by up line mentors is something else.  Tools become a lot of repetitive &quot;rah-rah&quot; propaganda that foster ideas such as &quot;buy from yourself&quot; and &quot;teach others to do the same&quot;.  

You seem to have a level headed approach to the direct selling business.  Folks who begin a direct selling business shouldn&#039;t &quot;check&quot; their brains at the door and blindly believe every idea espoused by upline kingpin promoters.  

Many times upline coaching teaches one to make incredible sacrifices in time, and money.  Folks are encouraged to buy, attend, and recruit others to do the same thing.  Selling is a concept the company may promote, but is not the &quot;ticket to success&quot; the kingpin distributors teach behind the scenes.  

The problem I find in the AmQuix system (and others of its type) is that &quot;Recruitment is Selling&quot;. The recruited are encouraged to do the buying.  

If the Quixtar IBO&#039;s stopped doing the buying and Ada was left to depend solely on true retail sales, the business would collapse immediately.  Agree?  Disagree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete&#8230;</p>
<p>Proper education and coaching are one thing; what is actually taught and encouraged by up line mentors is something else.  Tools become a lot of repetitive &#8220;rah-rah&#8221; propaganda that foster ideas such as &#8220;buy from yourself&#8221; and &#8220;teach others to do the same&#8221;.  </p>
<p>You seem to have a level headed approach to the direct selling business.  Folks who begin a direct selling business shouldn&#8217;t &#8220;check&#8221; their brains at the door and blindly believe every idea espoused by upline kingpin promoters.  </p>
<p>Many times upline coaching teaches one to make incredible sacrifices in time, and money.  Folks are encouraged to buy, attend, and recruit others to do the same thing.  Selling is a concept the company may promote, but is not the &#8220;ticket to success&#8221; the kingpin distributors teach behind the scenes.  </p>
<p>The problem I find in the AmQuix system (and others of its type) is that &#8220;Recruitment is Selling&#8221;. The recruited are encouraged to do the buying.  </p>
<p>If the Quixtar IBO&#8217;s stopped doing the buying and Ada was left to depend solely on true retail sales, the business would collapse immediately.  Agree?  Disagree?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Actually, our company is very much product-driven.  I understand what you are saying; but again must emphasize the importance of proper training and skill development.  If you notice, I emphasize a balance between product and recruiting.  Since I am looking for only a few good business partners, I never try to recruit the whole world, nor do I coach my business partners to do so.  Much of what we do is screening with respect to the recruiting process.  The rest is offering information on our product from a strict consumer standpoint.  All in all, I agree with your assessment of what is wrong with the MLM; but again, as in any industry, proper education, along with a willingess to accept coaching, is usually the answer.
Good discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, our company is very much product-driven.  I understand what you are saying; but again must emphasize the importance of proper training and skill development.  If you notice, I emphasize a balance between product and recruiting.  Since I am looking for only a few good business partners, I never try to recruit the whole world, nor do I coach my business partners to do so.  Much of what we do is screening with respect to the recruiting process.  The rest is offering information on our product from a strict consumer standpoint.  All in all, I agree with your assessment of what is wrong with the MLM; but again, as in any industry, proper education, along with a willingess to accept coaching, is usually the answer.<br />
Good discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: quixtarisacult</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>quixtarisacult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 23:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Pete...

Possibly your company would be better served if it went back to retailing products first.  It seems like the priority is wrong even when the invite is done correctly as you claim.  

I feel that there are some nice people in direct sales business.  But I know of one IBO who nearly goes into fits when he gets the turn down.  His wife tells him that he can&#039;t act like that; he becomes very combative.  It seems like they have lost a whole church full of friends and have started going to another church.  Even his neighbors call him the soap guy and shun him.  

Enthusiasm for recruitment sometimes gets way out of hand.  If people are sold on the products (i.e. quality, value, cost) then I think people would want to become a Rep.  Trying to recruit anyone and everyone seems to mean that recruitment is the only thing driving sales.  Basically you are not recruiting new sales reps but new customers.  Avon is much more successful at selling products and they don&#039;t over emphasis recruitment.  

Many products in the AmQuix line are so badly overpriced, the only way anyone can be convinced to buy them is by selling the &quot;dream&quot; first.  I am going to steal a line from Barack Obama: &quot;Do you smell what I&#039;m cooking?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete&#8230;</p>
<p>Possibly your company would be better served if it went back to retailing products first.  It seems like the priority is wrong even when the invite is done correctly as you claim.  </p>
<p>I feel that there are some nice people in direct sales business.  But I know of one IBO who nearly goes into fits when he gets the turn down.  His wife tells him that he can&#8217;t act like that; he becomes very combative.  It seems like they have lost a whole church full of friends and have started going to another church.  Even his neighbors call him the soap guy and shun him.  </p>
<p>Enthusiasm for recruitment sometimes gets way out of hand.  If people are sold on the products (i.e. quality, value, cost) then I think people would want to become a Rep.  Trying to recruit anyone and everyone seems to mean that recruitment is the only thing driving sales.  Basically you are not recruiting new sales reps but new customers.  Avon is much more successful at selling products and they don&#8217;t over emphasis recruitment.  </p>
<p>Many products in the AmQuix line are so badly overpriced, the only way anyone can be convinced to buy them is by selling the &#8220;dream&#8221; first.  I am going to steal a line from Barack Obama: &#8220;Do you smell what I&#8217;m cooking?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>The &quot;hard sell&quot; that you refer to a matter of poor training.  In our business, we teach those having a home party how to invite, before the invitations are made.  People come to the party, knowing that there will be a product discussed, as well as a business opportunity; however, the meeting is informational only: no product will be sold on premises; and no one will be asked to sign up for anything.  We broach the recruiting aspect as a &quot;first date&quot;, with the only intent being to see if that person wants to go on a second date...entirely up to them.  In any profession, there are those who develop the requisite skills, and those who do not.  With our learned skills, no one goes away from our home parties feeling pressured or feeling bad that they did not buy or sign up; and so we maintain a good relationship, whether it is a close friend or not.  Our approach to friends is, in fact, that we would like fo them to come to get an idea of what we are doing, and that it would mean a lot to us as a friend. Bottom line, you are correct, certain people are not up front, and do give our industry a bad name. It is up to the rest of us to develop the necessary skills, and to do it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;hard sell&#8221; that you refer to a matter of poor training.  In our business, we teach those having a home party how to invite, before the invitations are made.  People come to the party, knowing that there will be a product discussed, as well as a business opportunity; however, the meeting is informational only: no product will be sold on premises; and no one will be asked to sign up for anything.  We broach the recruiting aspect as a &#8220;first date&#8221;, with the only intent being to see if that person wants to go on a second date&#8230;entirely up to them.  In any profession, there are those who develop the requisite skills, and those who do not.  With our learned skills, no one goes away from our home parties feeling pressured or feeling bad that they did not buy or sign up; and so we maintain a good relationship, whether it is a close friend or not.  Our approach to friends is, in fact, that we would like fo them to come to get an idea of what we are doing, and that it would mean a lot to us as a friend. Bottom line, you are correct, certain people are not up front, and do give our industry a bad name. It is up to the rest of us to develop the necessary skills, and to do it right.</p>
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		<title>By: quixtarisacult</title>
		<link>http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>quixtarisacult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.directselling411.com/blog/miss-manners-misses-the-point/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Amy...

I really do believe there is something quite different about certain MLM &quot;invites&quot;.  Socializing and shopping I do not find objectionable.  I love to cook and some of the items offered at Pampered Chef parties are rather nice.  (Do you have that one measuring cup you prefer?)  For that reason, I don&#039;t really object to Tupperware, Pampered Chef  Avon or similar parties.  Guest are usually told what the invite is about and know what to expect. 

What I believe many people are fearful of and object to is the &quot;hard sell&quot; recruitment tactics some distributors spring on their guests.  There is something underhanded about how some &quot;distributors&quot; disguise these gatherings without divulging the true purpose.  My guess is that some people have had a rather unpleasant experience with one of these recruitment traps. They felt they had to sit through a rather long presentation and had the unpleasant experience of turning their host down.

I believe distributors should be up front about their purpose.  If it is a sales party of some type, many people may not object, but when the invite is not so specific, people smell a rat (so to speak).  My wife has enjoyed socializing at Tupperware parties and the like.  In my opinion the hard sell MLM recruiter gives the direct selling business a black eye.

Instead of improving social relationships, these many times end with people not talking to one another. The distributor is miffed about being turned down, and the guest is left with a bad feeling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy&#8230;</p>
<p>I really do believe there is something quite different about certain MLM &#8220;invites&#8221;.  Socializing and shopping I do not find objectionable.  I love to cook and some of the items offered at Pampered Chef parties are rather nice.  (Do you have that one measuring cup you prefer?)  For that reason, I don&#8217;t really object to Tupperware, Pampered Chef  Avon or similar parties.  Guest are usually told what the invite is about and know what to expect. </p>
<p>What I believe many people are fearful of and object to is the &#8220;hard sell&#8221; recruitment tactics some distributors spring on their guests.  There is something underhanded about how some &#8220;distributors&#8221; disguise these gatherings without divulging the true purpose.  My guess is that some people have had a rather unpleasant experience with one of these recruitment traps. They felt they had to sit through a rather long presentation and had the unpleasant experience of turning their host down.</p>
<p>I believe distributors should be up front about their purpose.  If it is a sales party of some type, many people may not object, but when the invite is not so specific, people smell a rat (so to speak).  My wife has enjoyed socializing at Tupperware parties and the like.  In my opinion the hard sell MLM recruiter gives the direct selling business a black eye.</p>
<p>Instead of improving social relationships, these many times end with people not talking to one another. The distributor is miffed about being turned down, and the guest is left with a bad feeling.</p>
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